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Why Anti-Abortion Supporters Are Pro-Death Penalty | State Of Grace | Refinery29

Why Anti-Abortion Supporters Are Pro-Death Penalty | State Of Grace | Refinery29


Currently in America there is a lot of time,
energy, and money being spent on legislating and advocating for innocent unborn lives. There are endless conversations swirling around
regarding the boundaries of when life begins and the morality behind deciding when it ends. There are all these different stages of cellular development. Texas introduced a bill that would have made
it possible for a woman to receive the death penalty for having an abortion. As a Christian, the extreme juxtaposition
of life and death really fucked me up. Sorry mom. So let’s talk about this. How are we, and the systems and institutions
we’ve created in this country, valuing lives? In the battle to protect the innocent unborn,
are we losing the fight for humanity? Texas is the execution capital of America, executing 561 of America’s nearly
1500 state sanctioned homicides since the death penalty’s reinstatement in 1976. And yet, Texas is also one of the states restricting
the most access and government funding to abortion and reproductive health care centers. If you believe that life begins at conception,
all right, cool. How can you dictate that for someone else? Do you know the meaning of life? Does anyone in this car know the meaning of life? It is dogs. It is finding a dog. After you. I do not know where I’m going. Ok. One of the first places that they would probably
come in would be to meet with a health center assistant. And come in and get their medical history
taken, blood pressure. This looks like a normal doctor’s office. Just a doctor’s office. This is one of our largest in terms of the
number of exam rooms, and it sees the most patients. Okay. Also while I’m here, I’ve been eating really
well. I would just like to kind of… Like six feet? That’s right, yeah. Extremely tall and good looking. And accurate. That’s what that said. It’s very strange. Your wheels are turning. I can see it. I know, I know. I think I had my own idea of what to sort
of expect. I kind of thought it would be more serious
and sad. I don’t think it’s what people expect when
they hear Planned Parenthood. You’re not the first. I mean, people walk in and they’re like, wow
it’s like a doctor’s office. I’m like, yes. We’re a health care provider. And you’re like, this idiot, who gave her
a show? Scientifically, where do we often make the
distinction of when life begins? Well, I don’t know that that’s a scientific
concept, right? So I think if you’re talking about life of
cells, there are cells that are on our skin, sperms
are cells, eggs are cells, different things are cells. Some people consider that life. I think scientifically whether that’s life
or not, we don’t usually debate that. That’s more of an ethical concept. No matter how you define when life begins,
an autonomous person contemplating an abortion is inarguably alive. In Texas, motherhood is risky business. Despite the spike in Texas’ maternal mortality
rate, during the most recent legislative session lawmakers refused to expand Medicaid coverage to people who
had just given birth. There are so many contradictions, right? Whether it’s Medicaid coverage, you start
looking at the foster care system and the number of people that are in the foster care
system, the value of life becomes very different once somebody gives birth. It’s sort of a lack of consistency. Absolutely. It’s only once a person is pregnant that they
care about that pregnancy. We have heard it said, perhaps it’s not so
much as pro-life as pro-birth. I would agree with that. The conversation surrounding abortion in America
has predominantly been driven by religious beliefs. You don’t have to look too far to learn about the overwhelming Christian perspective on abortion. Abortion is murder. What is often left out of the conversation
is that the majority of people who have abortions are already parents. For example, 59% of the women having
abortions in 2014 had already given birth before, and 62% reported a religious
affiliation. These facts told me it was time to step outside
my presumptions and listen. I had an abortion, and it wasn’t based on
God. It wasn’t based on any of that because God
wasn’t helping me pay the bills. God wasn’t helping me put her to bed every
night. Stephanie is a Christian and a single mother
who found herself facing a difficult decision when she became pregnant for a second time while on birth control. I mean, I went to church every Sunday. I definitely went from being a Catholic Republican
to a non-denominational Democrat. I just couldn’t choose a child that I didn’t
know over the child that I already had. Was it murder? I don’t know. It wasn’t about murder. It wasn’t about any of that. It was… I just can’t do it. And God be damned. Basically. No one looks at the mothers afterwards. The mothers seem to be the forgotten shells. You know, we make the babies, but we are forgotten
afterwards. The process is just very unforgiving in so
many ways that, if you have the abortion, how dare
you. If you need assistance after having a child,
how dare you. If you take child support, oh, well you’re
just greedy. Until you can take your crown and put it down
and come and experience what some other people who are experiencing, you just don’t know. We’re all religious, we all have our ideas
or belief systems, until you don’t. Until you’re put into a situation where you
have to put that aside and just be okay with what you did. How often do we actively challenge our own
belief systems and test the boundaries of our faith? As a queer Christian I’ve tested my faith
regarding sexuality time and time again, but selfishly I had never taken the time to question
the religious perspective on abortion, because well, honestly, it scares the crap out of
me. I have to ask myself, if I’m terrified to
have this conversation, how much more scared is a woman who has no sense that she can control
her body? Reverend Keaton King is a Presbyterian pastor
in Houston and has made it her lifelong mission to stand in support of a woman’s right to
choose. Her faith informs her that standing beside
Planned Parenthood is what Jesus would do. There’s this story traditionally known to
the church as the Annunciation. It’s when the angel Gabriel comes to tell
Mary that she will become pregnant and that she will bear the son of God. When the Angel comes to her and makes this
announcement, the angel could have departed immediately
if the only goal of their interaction was to deliver this news. And then be like, peace. Yeah, you’re gonna be pregnant, bye. That’s not what happened. Mary got the opportunity to ask questions
and the angel actually gives her an answer. She gets to ask questions about her body and
her future, and engage her maker with those questions. What happens next is amazing. She says, let it be with me, according to
your word. Mary gives consent. To me that says that God gave women choice
and expects us to use it. I have never heard that before! Have you ever engaged with someone who disagrees
with you on this issue from a similar faith perspective? And how did that conversation go? Their background assumption was that a woman
seeking abortion was perhaps careless. Christians are so fond of quoting John 3:16,
but what John 3:17, the very next verse, says is God did not send
Jesus into the world to condemn the world. How does your faith inform your opinion on
capital punishment? Jesus is not about our condemnation and is
not interested in justice which is retributive. No matter what someone has done, that does
not cut them off from God’s love. Retributive justice is based in suffering. It’s the concept that if you do something
wrong you deserve to pay the price. But should the ultimate price be death? I guess in reflecting on the people we’ve
spoken with on this trip and hearing where different people draw the lines on life and
death as informed by faith, science, politics, experience, I’m very mindful of how vague
and difficult to define life is. But death is an absolute. How are you making that definitive decision
on just the grand mystery of life that we’re all going to spend our lifetimes trying to
figure out. It feels like a really crazy thing to– crazy
and bold. Very bold. And potentially, and as we’re seeing, quite
dangerous to govern in absolutes on something that is so
mysterious. And not really care too much, it seems, for
the consequences of things like capital punishment. Death is an absolute. I can’t make sense of that. It became really evident to me that if we’re
going to enforce state-sanctioned birth, we also need to be talking about state-sanctioned
death. I was driving down the street to go to a regular
church meeting at night, and there was a group of people over here just on Main Street with
signs. And I became curious about that, and sure
enough, there was an execution going on. And so I thought, seriously, while I’m driving
down the street just a few feet away they are killing someone, and worse yet, they are
killing that person in my name? It’s on behalf of the residents of the state
of Texas that this person is literally being taken from life to death. Reverend Cheryl Smith is currently a pastor
at John Wesley United Methodist in Houston, Texas. But she spent years pastoring and standing
vigil outside the execution center at the Huntsville Prison, the nation’s busiest death
chamber. Some people will draw on religious language and say, well you know, in the Bible it talks
about an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth. I also speak religious language, but that’s
not the religious language I speak. I follow a man who talked about a different
kind of justice, and I believe we need to be doing a lot more about justice in this
world. It is not justice when little children go
to bed hungry. It is not justice when children do not get equal and good educations. It is not justice that children are not well
served up to this point, and then we start punishing them and maybe even putting them
to death. Do I get to change the rules about how I value
and treat people based on what they’ve done? You could even have said it like a value and
treat another life. Another life, which is like the life I’ve
been given. I didn’t earn it, I got it. I was born with it. Everybody gets born with this gift of life. Do I get to decide, based on somebody else’s
behavior, how much dignity they’re going to have? I don’t think they become some other class
of creation just because they made bad choices. As Christians we’re called to love all image
bearers, knowing that sin is intrinsically built into our humanity. But what obligation does our country have
in valuing the lives of those who have broken the law? There’s a bit of a righteousness that people
feel in supporting the death penalty that I think is quite strong. I used to feel it myself. As a self-proclaimed conservative, Hannah
Cox was formerly a supporter of the death penalty, but through her policy work with
the National Alliance on Mental Illness, Hannah became aware of the issues within the criminal
justice system and is now the national manager for an organization called Conservatives Concerned
About the Death Penalty. How often are we getting things wrong with
regards to death penalty cases? So we know that at least one out of every
10 people on death row, one person for every 10 executions, has been fully exonerated,
which is another level– Are you serious? Yeah. On top of that, we know there’s been over
800 exonerations for people who committed homicide but were not sentenced to death. One pushback I get a lot from people in the
pro-life movement is that they only believe in protecting innocent life, and I have a
lot of problems with that statement. One, even if that is how you’re caging your
support for the death penalty, that’s not a valid argument because there is so much
innocent life caught up in the death penalty. But secondly, again, I don’t see anywhere
in scripture where you get to only care about innocent life, and what is innocent life? We’ve all committed wrong, and if it were
not for Jesus coming, we’d all be given a death sentence. So in all state studies that we’ve done we
see that 96% of cases, there was evidence of racial bias against the defendant or the
victim or both. And if you look right out the gate, who do
we decide we pursue capital crimes against? It’s for people who kill white people. We see a system that says some victims lives
matter more than others. It feels somewhat hypocritical that there
is a major movement to criminalize abortion to protect what is considered an innocent
life. But the same energy is not given to saving
that same life if they commit a crime. Is anything truly unforgivable in the eyes
of God? I have a recording of his last interview before
he was murdered by the state. He said, “You know, Mama, I got off track
for just three months, and it ruined my whole life. It did.” Lee Greenwood is the mother of Joseph Nichols,
a man convicted of murder and executed in Texas as a result of the law of parties. The law of parties states that a person can
be criminally responsible for the actions of another in certain circumstances. This law seeks to punish criminal associations
and impose harsh penalties for even being linked to a felony through
a conspiracy or planned crime. This means that while Joseph’s accomplice
pled guilty and was executed for the killing, Joseph was eventually retried and suffered
the same consequences as the man who was initially convicted of firing the fatal shot. Joseph was executed in Harris County, Texas
on March 7th, 2007, 25 years after his arrest. Do you recall a time that you or Joseph were
ever hopeful? We were always hopeful. I was told by various attorneys he may have
done six months at California Youth Authority. Maybe he may have even gotten probation. But I soon learned that the thing about justice
was a farce. Especially in Harris County, Houston, Texas. I wonder, what would you say to someone who is in support of the death penalty? I believe I wouldn’t have anything to say
to them simply because all the things that they have heard or read in recent years about
persons being exonerated that while on death row, if that had not convinced them, I certainly
can’t. And I would venture to say that most of those
people probably sit in some church every Sunday. Do you consider yourself a person of faith? I do. How did the execution of your son impact your
faith? I asked always that Joseph be free. Now, I didn’t specify how he’d be free. I just wanted him free. So if you believe in God, or whoever your
higher power is, you have to believe and have to be willing to accept whatever the outcome
is. Joseph said in the last days, “Lady, stand on your faith and be at peace. I’ve got this.” If he could say that, who am I to dishonor
him by falling on the floor rolling and flailing and crying and all of that. The day that we went to visit Joseph for the
last time, which was a Wednesday, we were turned toward a big window and when they opened
the curtains, they had already strapped him down on the gurney. They allowed us to hear his heartbeat until
it was no more. If it makes one person not maybe change their
idea or the way they look at the death penalty, if it just makes them start thinking. It won’t bring Joseph back, but Joseph doesn’t
have to be brought back in the body. He’s here and in his family and his friends’
mind and hearts every day. So as far as I’m concerned, Joseph will never
mentally die. He’s always in our minds. We all have to die. We were born to die. Not to be morbid, but Lee is right. We’re all born to die, and the inevitability
of death challenges me to examine how I live and how I can honor the lives around me. I strongly believe in the mystery of faith,
and impossible questions about life and death only reinforce this belief. But these impossible questions and strongly
held opinions should not be used to divide us, but to encourage us to lean closer. Take a moment to listen, adjust our lens,
and understand the lived experience of someone different than ourselves. Because when we’re valuing each other, we’re
valuing life. Thank you so much for watching Refinery29. For more videos, click here, and to subscribe, click here.

100 thoughts on “Why Anti-Abortion Supporters Are Pro-Death Penalty | State Of Grace | Refinery29”

  1. I grew up studying in a Catholic school in the Philippines and I can still remember in my 2nd year in high school, we were tasked to attend a rally against the DEATH (Divorce, Euthanasia, Abortion, The Reproductive Health, and Homosexuality/Same Sex Marriage) Bills that my government was about to enact. This rally was supposed to be our "project" for our Religion class, and I can still remember us holding signages without really having any idea just for the sake of grades. We were fed with this one-sided view that everything the bills were about to offer was wrong, and we're supposed to believe it. Flash-forward to a couple of years and I "defected" and became agnostic. I'm proud to be a part of the LGBTQIA+, and I'm glad that both men and women from other countries get to be free from bad marriages and domestic abuses. I never want to see a person suffer a slow, painful death and if they choose to end the pain, who am I judge them? Same goes to the women who find themselves not ready, not fit, not healthy enough, or struck with unforeseen circumstances that makes them unable to carry on with their pregnancy.
    If there was anything I learned from 15 years worth Religion classes(K-10 program), is that (if there is a) God, gave humans the ability to choose. In my case, even if I value life, I cannot dictate another person's choice and views. Every person has a right to choose. Every person deserves the right to be asked for consent. No person wants to be deprived of this right.

  2. Dear poeple from Texas! Please considere that it is NOT the old Testament that tells a christian how to live. It is the new Testament! And in that you don't read: 'eye for an eye', – instead you read ' forgive you next and love your enemy'. Death-penalty is MURDER! NEVER forget that.
    Abortion is not a sin: Maria was asked if she wants to give birth to Jesus after an other woman refused to do that…a womans body belongs to her, it is her joice! It is much painless not to come to life when you don't have a working brain yet then to suffer as a child …

  3. Why is the idea of separation of church and state thrown out the window when we talk about this. If your belief is that life begins at conception because the bible told you so that's fine. That belief cannot be turned into a law. Sometimes Americans sounds like the '3rd world' countries they despise.

  4. Idk man. I still think the El Paso shooter DESERVES to die. Someone who has taken, destroyed, and traumatized countless innocent lives because of pure hatred deserves what is about to come to him. All I can think about is that video of the little girl and her mother yelling “run mija!” and how evil it is that another human being wanted to kill them because she calls her daughter mija instead of baby girl. He killed people just because of the way they looked and spoke. He didn’t give a damn where they came from. He’s not even sorry. He is 100% guilty and deserves to be fried in an electric chair.

  5. Honestly, if you want to have a child, that's YOUR business and if I don't want to have mine, that's MY business. I won't get mad at you for having your mediocre kid so don't get mad at me for preventing mine from living a mediocre life. Period.

  6. this should be a non issue. there's no brain-body connection until 3rd trimester. a human cannot live without those connections. bam life starts at the 3rd trimester

  7. I am pro-life, christian & against the death penalty. I would have liked to hear someone from that perspective. I think it's very important to have these conversations, with people we agree and disagree with. I would have liked to hear a conversation that was less one sided. It was heavy on pro-choice & anti death penalty, but the topic was pro-life, yet that voice wasn't heard in an interview conversational way as were the other opinions. It could have been my misunderstanding on what the video was about, but that's just my thoughts on it.

  8. Grace, thank you for speaking with Ms Greenwood. If you are interested in doing a video on the subject, I would love to see you do a full video on prisons: the treatment of incarcerated people, prison labor, the bail system, how the formerly incarcerated fare upon release etc. The US prison system is frankly barbaric and more attention deserves to be given to the way we treat our incarcerated people. It is a subject that has been close to my heart since I was young because I grew up in Maricopa County, where Joe Arpaio’s famous “Tent City” was located, and incarcerated people were forced to be outside at all times in 100°+ heat. I am not a Christian myself but I used to be and I really don’t think Jesus would be a big fan of US prisons. Thanks again for this video.

  9. Weirdly enough, at my very hardcore Catholic school the pro life things your taught also included being against the death penalty, because their view was that only God can take life (also why they were against euthanasia). Maybe it was also because we were in Canada and not in the US. I'm always baffled at super pro life people who only care about fetuses and not like, full grown humans.

  10. The question posted in this video is certainly interesting. But what truly intrigues me is the lovely Methodist pastors story of going to church on a seemingly normal Sunday evening and realising that just a few steps away someone is being murdered with the help of taxpayers money. And, you [Americans] have the audacity to call yourself children of God much less Christ but you break one of his fundamental rules: 'Thou shall not murder.' I'm perfectly aware that the death-penalty may mainly be a political symbol politicians pass around among each other much like a peace pipe, and there may even be a certain demographic within society that agrees with it as well but I surely hope it isn't the majority. But back to the point of being Christian, I myself may write myself off as merely a cultural christian but this doesn't mean that I can't take part in a healthy debat on not only state sanctioned death [death penalty] or abortion. Again, I may not be an American but as a woman I personally fell attacked when hearing about my fellow ladies losing their right to choice. If we should take the religious route the bible is actually pro-choice: '… the priests will write these curses on the scroll, and he will wipe them off in the waters of the bitterness…' (see 5:23-24) So, to all your pro-death supporters out there, you argument of the bible being anti-choice is simply invalid. When it comes to this point, I may be pro-choice myself but I cannot simply not stand by watching those who claim to be "pro-life" but are in favour of putting any woman's life at risk just because they believe that life begins at conception which I will strongly disagree with. And, if one should live by this notion men of all individuals shouldn't be allowed to engage in self pleasure since it is by its core mass-murder. This may seem a tad bit extreme but if you really wish to follow the notion of every unborn child having a right to the door this may be the next step. To wrap up, as a "pro-life" supporter, in my mind at least, it makes no sense that you're anti-abortion but pro-murder anyway. Answer me this, how come "murder" is extremely wrong in one instance but the only logical way out of another.

  11. In my country we don’t have the death penalty. I can not understand how the US can justify killing people. It makes them as bad or even worse as the ones they execute.

  12. just cringing that this women is a Christian, she can do what she wants, but Christianity is one of the most hateful harmful concept ever developed

  13. I’m finding some of this comments EXTREMELY disrespectful, I’m not pro abortion or pro choice but I just keep my opinions to myself and I do not attack people that are pro abortion because I respect their opinion I think everyone should have that in mind instead of just commenting pro life people are annoying and stupid

  14. God, Grace captures some of the best conflicts to date. She is an excellent journalist with a poignant, clear approach.

  15. I know the meaning of life. I am a mother. Life begins as conception, that’s biology. Mary didn’t give consent to giving birth, she gave consent to being the new Eve, the new arch of the new covenant, the mother of the church and the mother of Jesus Christ our Lord. All lives matter, womb to tomb. All life matters.

  16. Babies did nothing wrong, murderers and criminals did. Innocence does not deserve death. It's really simple, really…

  17. I am a person of color in a same sex marriage and am Buddhist. Im very much pro life., kinda. I work in the medical field and have seen so many woman who have had abortions and it had a negative effect on their life years and years later. The reasons I hear and see that people I have met that have chosen to have an abortion are usually for selfish reasons. They dont want a kid at that time. Giving it up for adoption is not an option because they are worried about what others would think of them. I believe abortions are necessary in some situations such as health of the mother, rape, ect. I just wish we could focus more on helping woman prevent pregnancy then use abortion as a form of birth control. And late term abortion is just wrong in my opinion. However having said all that I would never look down on my fellow woman for their individual choices. My aim is more to help educate and assist what ever situation a woman may find herself in.

  18. I cannot express how much I value this series. It puts into words and images the ideas and feelings I’ve been processing and how I’ve been deconstructing and reconstructing my own faith as a former evangelical Christian who has now found a more appropriate denominational and local church fit. Thank you so much for these videos – I’m sincerely hungry for more of this content… are there other ways we can engage with this series?? It’s just been so fantastic!

  19. Would you guys consider doing a video that’s the opposite? Why Abortionist are agains the Death Penalty? That’s just as contradictory.

  20. many of the anti-choice people are also in the same group that make prevention of pregnancy more difficult. how anti-woman do you want to be??

  21. I’m pro life and anti death penalty lol I don’t think it makes sense any other way. Only God can give life and only He can take it away

  22. Your response is sadly, so typical of those women that remain angry, and hateful toward other women. I hope you're never faced with having to make this decision. You at least must recognize, that a women never desires to be confronted with this choice. It's never an enviable situation. There are circumstances, unique to every woman, surrounding a pregnancy, that require the ability to choose. How can you judge another women, based on a situation you no nothing about. My wish for you, is that you find the grace to show empathy and compassion, toward your fellow female sisters.

  23. A pro-lifer once told me abortion was "playing god." I said, "C'mon, realtalk. You eat meat, yes? That says you're ok deciding who lives and who doesn't. Mamas who love and nurture their offspring literally wail and cry when their babies are taken away. Most suffer in terrible conditions. These are already-developed creatures, who breathe, think, and feel. However you justify it, you have decided that their deaths are worth your pleasure, and it is your right to end their lives. By this rationale, you are also 'playing god.'"

    But being religious isn't synonymous with being a loving, empathetic, or good person, unfortunately. They may overlap. But religion is more about feeling than logic. And humanity, morality, compassion can't always be taught from a book.

  24. What I don't understand is why it always has to go so far. I can absolutely respect why people think the way that they do, and all I ask is that I get that respect in return. Why does it matter if a woman has an abortion? I can understand when you say that we don't have the right to murder someone but you have to think farther than that. You have to have perspective. You don't know what brought that woman there to that point in life. Why should someone else take away her right to choose what happens with her body? I can absolutely respect your beliefs as pro-life. But I don't respect the way some push that belief on to others. It is my life, my body, and my responsibility, not yours and it will never be yours. You will never have to make her decision or take care of that baby if it's born or help the mother or her family. You make your decisions. Just respect people and don't judge so hard. You don't know why they do what they do. Just show some compassion.

  25. If someone is truly pro-life they are also anti-death penalty… sorry but most of the pro-life community do not support the death penalty at all!

  26. I think since Western society is secular where the political and social spheres are segregated from religious values, that's how it is in Australia. In comparison, I don't think people should interfere with the choice young women to take for an abortion its already disheartening, the government doesn't provide much in terms of financial support. I don't blame those women for having abortions I do think they are wrong to a certain extent but I would never force a decision on an individual, that's social repression. People just need to fucken mind their own business and live their own lives withouth interfering with others.

  27. These people don’t realize that there are people out there who we DON’T WANT HAVING BABIES. Abortion is a thing for a reason.

  28. I went to the pro life march at 15 bc I wanted to see snow bc I’m from the south. I regret that trip immensely. The propaganda that they showed to our church group was horrendus

  29. This video lacked balance. The title calls out those who are pro life yet didn’t give any time to those who are in fact pro life to defend their beliefs. You only gave screen time to the pro choice and anti death penalty camps. All I’m saying is if you’re going to call a group of people out in the title of your video, maybe actually sit down and talk to those people.

  30. A 'Christian' that is asking the meaning of life hasn't read, "Keep the commandments, and wait patiently for Christ – this is the whole duty of man." Even the death penalty is not on the map compared to abortions, and some acts can't be rehabilitated… Over past 40 years, since Texas legalized the death penalty, there's been 0.84 criminals executed each MONTH. Since abortions were legalized 40-yrs ago, there have been about 130,000 abortions performed each DAY. The whole premise of this is fatefully flawed.

  31. It's not a hard question to answer. I'm pro-life and pro death penalty. One is innocent the other is not. I believe that if the mother's life is at risk she should be able to get an abortion. I also believe convicted rapists should get the death penalty. You don't get to rape 3 women and kill 7 people and get to live, you must be put down. We should absolutely fix the system. If you have sex there is always a possibility of pregnancy. How dare you both lay down and create a life then turn around and extinguish that life? You should've made your choice before you killed someone. It's disgraceful, don't continue to go down that path.

  32. I live in NC. Several years ago a distant family member got pregnant. She found out late 2nd trimester that the baby had died. She had to carry the baby to term and give birth to it, all knowing that the baby wasn’t alive because of legislation on late term abortions.

  33. The last interview had me thinking. Only because you only think serial killers get death penalty. Yes, her son was guilty but really only should’ve been charged with manslaughter not the death penalty. Wow

  34. The pro-life movement has a racist agenda. Since, white births are at a decline, they are worried they are gonna be a minority soon. Which is why they don't want any more white baby abortions. Then don't care if a non white baby is being aborted…. they only care about maintaining white hegemony

  35. Uuhhh…innocent life is definitely easily defined as a life that hasn't been born yet. Shouldn't they be respected enough to be given the chance to be born? Late term abortions in many states are now legal up to actual time of birth and then babies are left to die "by choice" of the parent even IF they somehow survive. I can get onboard with taking a much harder look at the death penalty! Also with helping to support new mothers that need it with other options. Also couples that want to adopt getting to do so more easily. There has to be a better balance.

  36. Why don’t you understand that your religious delusion just can’t accommodate the modern world values? This conflict will just grow day after day if you dare questioning yourself. Why are you trying to balance between obvious real world choices and your delusion? It ruins your life! It poisons you! Your religious delusion IS the reason of your struggle, not the lack of flexibility of your religion. Throw this dangerous thing away from your life, find some strength to get rid of that fear and misbalance. Stop believing in nonsense, and your life will make perfect sense again.

  37. I really admire the way you do your pieces. You put yourself in settings that make you uncomfortable for the sake of getting a more complete picture. You handle heavy issues with a calm professionalism that is wonderful to see.

  38. I heard someone on another thread say it well: Scratch the surface and Christians look at unplanned pregnancy as the punishment for pre-marital sex

  39. As a secular pro-life advocate, I am severely disappointed in this. You did not use any perspective from a pro life person directly from the source. You listened to other people who already have that bias. I seriously had higher hopes because I would love for there to be more middle ground. But no, you chose to listen to one side. Not productive AT ALL.

  40. That reverend kicks ass. Shows just how far the right has gone into hijacking christianity into making it about them through cherrypicking and ideology. While she is also using ideology and cherrypicking, she truly seems to have convictions outside of scripture that make her godly.

  41. Pro death penalty because some people don’t deserve the air they breath after they commit a heinous crime. It’s MIND BOGGLING how people can believe every life is sacred.

  42. Is being conceived (albeit through different circumstances) a crime the child has committed that we should enact the death penalty on them for? The root answer to "Is abortion murder" is this: Is the embryo / fetus a human being? If the answer is yes, then yes we are murdering a human being.

  43. I love when pro-life people are like "iT's A pOtEnTiaL LifE" like… I sure hope your vegetarian/vegan cause if not, all those animals you eat the meat off, has more life than that unborn fetus you care so deeply about. And fun fact, most of the pro-abortion people I have talked to is in fact not vegetarian/vegan. So much for potential life. Lets be honest here, I wouldnt have known nor cared if my mom had aborted me. In the end, it's the life and choice of the woman carrying the child, it's the consideration about possible illness and what life the baby will have

  44. A child is not given a choice in abortion. That life is taken away most likely cause he/she cannot speak for themselves. I'm sure if you could hear them talk they would be giving you reasons not to kill them even in the most tragic cases. They are innocent and God sees them in His image as much in the womb as out of the womb.

  45. I don't understand why people genuinely believe they can have a say in what I'll do with my body. If I wanna abort, I will, that's none of your business and frankly I really don't care what your beliefs are concerning that

  46. This is the most hypocritical video I have ever seen how can “Christians” murder their child and say Jesus would do the same or support them when Jesus himself says clearly if you hate your brother your in danger of the fires of hell so I don’t understand how physical killing your child is supported by God.

  47. In regards to abortion, this video was incredibly biased. She didn't even talk to a pro-lifer about abortion. And how does Mary saying "let it be according to your word" imply that she had a choice?? The angel didn't ask her anything. He told her what would happen.

  48. This is disgusting. Wtf. Because someone values not just the woman but both her and the child, this is what is made???

  49. I normally stay in my own lane and leave things alone, but this women's statement saying that Mary had a choice had my wheels turning so I opened my bible and went to Luke chapter 1:28-38 and read it and in this it says that the angel Gabriel said that Mary will conceive and give birth and she will name her son Jesus. He let her ask questions for acceptance of what was going to happen to her, he wasn't asking her permission. Anyone who says u WILL do this is not asking for permission, he left after Mary said I am the lords servant may everything you have said about me come true, that was her response of acceptance and not her giving her consent to allow this to happen there is a huge difference. If she said no it was still going to happen. Also look through the bible anytime god had an angel tell someone what he wanted them to do they had to do it, Jonah is a good example of that, I'm sure if jonah was asked he would have said no. If god says u will do something ur gonna do it or there will be consequences for ur actions.

  50. is killing a life better than living in poverty? while i do understand that abortions are sometimes necessary for medical reasons i do not believe they are necessary because the baby would be a financial inconvenience. it is hard and shitty to be in a place where you can't provide for your family but imagine facing those same circumstances and deciding to shoot one of you living family members so you wouldn't have to worry about providing for them. you wouldn't do it. yet if it's a baby inside the mom's uterus suddenly you can? by those measures we should all kill people who live in poverty because apparently their lives just aren't worth it are they?
    ps: you all probably wont see this but if you do and decide to reply please be respectful and thank you.

  51. I can understand how pro-lifers think that getting rid of a fetus is against a commandment, but it is sad how they completely forget the right of women. About the children, while it is important that the mother gives birth to an innocent life, isn't it important that the child has a stable environment to live in, and wouldn't it be better to kill the fetus than to put an innocent young child in suffering.

    About the death penalty, one of the Ten Commandments says you shall not kill, but the new Texas law is exactly killing women. So if they really want to be religious, why are they placing this stupid rule that is pretty much just throwing their stupidity and ignorance in their faces.

    When you think of pro-life and the new Texas law, just think of this:
    An innocent 4 year old cries and screams as she sees her mom get strapped into the death penalty chair. She clings to her dad and screams out her mother's name. Her mother tells her it's not her fault and that she will be wherever God places her. The little girl asks her grandma why mom is dying, and grandma says that in order to keep her (the 4 year old girl), she would have to give up the baby; if she kept the baby, she would have to give up the little girl, because otherwise they would all be homeless. The doctor puts the poison in the mother's wrist, and she dies. The little girl goes on in life thinking it was her fault and that she caused her mom to die. She suffers from PTSD and depression for the rest of her life, and wonders why her mother had to die. When that little girl, now a grown woman becomes 40, she joins her mother wherever she is, because the same thing has happened to her as did her mother. She leaves her crying daughter behind, and the cycle repeats again.

  52. Your video is very biased and you’re only getting the side of the pro-choices not pro life. I thought journalism was suppose to be non-biased.

  53. I was fifteen when I was raped and got pregnant, having to carry the baby to almost second term before I had my abortion. It was a necessary life saver, I honestly would’ve killed myself if I had a baby. Now I just can’t imagine the women who are denied it..

  54. I'm not pro death penalty, and I'm still so sick of this terrible argument. There is a huge difference between an unborn human child and a serial murderer. Please stop using this tired, crappy argument just because it seems like a contradiction. It really isn't.

  55. Good argument on Mary giving consent. Another argument to be stated by Christians is that abortion was perfectly normal and even administered in adultery cases by high priests/rabbis in Old Testament. Jesus claimed upon his arrival to ministry that he was not seeking to change the laws of the original books of Moses and never specifically said anything about abortion, hence by default, was not opposed to it.

  56. The laws surrounding the death penalty and Christianity are "iffy." While the Old Testament mandated retribution (death) for many offenses- even working on the Sabbath, some murderers were allowed to live and go on. Jesus steps in between a prostitute who was working on Sabbath and her accusers and states that for those who have no sin can cast the first stone. That, though, was for a crime considered by many far lesser than murder. It's hard to say how a devout Christian should feel about the death penalty.

    Now Jews, who were the writers of the original Torah, collectively take an anti-death penalty stance (law enforcement in non-secular Israel- no death penalty). Jews also wrote the Gospels since the apostles were all Jewish. So why is it that Jews (collectively in the form of Israel) currently oppose the death penalty but Christians still adhere to it?

    As an agnostic, I don't have to prescribe to scriptures for my opinions on crime and punishment. I'm anti-death penalty. Plain and simple out of moral reasons- not saying some people don't deserve to die, but it's not correct for a government to set that sort of example and allowing it for some opens the doors for those that might not really deserve it even though they murdered (let alone the innocents who sometimes slip through the cracks of justice).

  57. I like the pastor who talks about the quest for justice when it comes to crime, but lack that same fervor with other injustices regarding inequal treatments/opportunities for some of our population.

  58. Wow well done Refinery. Always including real statistics and facts, raising questions for either sides and truly trying to focus on the people ultimately being affected. Those people being the ones who if they are not given the choice, who do decide to make that choice, and then those who deserve the support they need after. This is not about who’s beliefs can out debate the other, real women have and will need this medical procedure. If you don’t support abortion, then that’s your choice but to take away someone else’s right to choose is a contradiction. Rather than shun and ridicule couples who make this decision, take a moment to reflect. Everyone has their reasons and no one takes it lightly, on either side. And btw Jesus never rejected, ostracized, or shamed anyone. In fact, in the Bible Jesus shows compassion and love to EVERYONE.

  59. The anti abortion people being pro death penalty has always drove me crazy. Life either matters or it doesn’t. You can’t have it both ways.

  60. The methodist reverend talking about someone else’s behavior not making them a second class creation. but an unwanted child is second class creation?

  61. I think if the mother is in danger bc pregnancy then it's okay🤷🏻
    It's not okay if you are in a relationship and do abortion you need to know that from sex comes baby's…so have sex when you think it's no't so big problem to have baby. and then we need solution what to do whit rapist/rape.. I think cut da D out if they got good proof from the rape or something must really be done 🙁 but maybe if you don't do abortion bc rape but give the baby to adoption. We need to do something against rape!

  62. Cant believe that this is still an issue that women can even get abortion in a fucking developed country!! its outrageous. Most fetuses are bean sized when abortion happens, and almost as many natural abortion of a fertilized fetus happens before the women even knew they were pregnant.

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